Catavino - Latest Comments in Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

Dr. Debs — Sun, 27 Jan 2008 23:17:23 -0000

Sorry to be chiming in so late--beginning of the semester. I think this idea is well worth pursuing, even though there are a lot of (excellent) questions that need resolving. I think I agree that having something to hold is not necessarily the big thing--and I suspect that some kind of quality control/vetting is. My suspicion is that if wine bloggers really put an effort into writing something longer than a blog post and of magazine quality they could do it--and that the resulting publication would in fact be better than any of the wine mags currently around in terms of diversity of opinion, regional coverage, etc. And though it might be seen as elitist, I feel strongly that selectivity is key--with all the disappointment that that might cause, etc.

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

Dr. Debs — Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:17:23 -0000

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

ryanopaz — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:59:18 -0000

Thanks Bill for your insight, anything we do do is going to need that personal touch since that is what I think draws people to blogging., I agree lifestyle pieces make sense...and the avoidance of dry antiseptic notes....

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

Ryan — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 04:59:18 -0000

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

Bill — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 19:33:00 -0000

Ryan,

As a "non-blogger", but avid reader of Catavino, I applaud your desire to put something like this together. It is obvious by the previous comments that there is a passionate group of wine bloggers out there with good ideas.

As a reader, the articles that are of most interest to me are "wine lifestyle" oriented. I don't simply want to read tasting notes about wine. I want something deeper than that. You have provided posts that touch on the lifestyle and I think those are the best. You are so lucky to live immersed in a major wine producing country. I enjoy the stories about your experiences and want more. Like Gab's post on the visit to the cava producer. It's evocative and takes me away from Minnesota to a wine dream world. I love going to that dream world. Oh, and if you can make me laugh, even better!

What I don't want is the Parker experience, which basically consists of very dry , dare I say antiseptic, notes about this wine and that. BORING!!!!! Thanks for asking me to provide feedback.

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

Bill — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 17:33:00 -0000

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

Jeff — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:27:55 -0000

Ryan,

I think you're on to something here. Though, I think taking more of a book/lulu.com approach might be the way to go as opposed to baselining against Jpg

If you look at a couple of the recent essay-driven wine books that have come out ("Wine & Philosophy" and "Questions of Taste" for example) I think collating a book around essays from bloggers that is governed by an editorial board with topic oversight is very doable. In fact, I think there's an audience for it, as well.

But, I think topics need to be curated and I think some professional editing assistance from elance.com or elsewhere is probably required. When you think about it, there aren't too many bloggers doing long pieces.

The other notion is to potentially tie this to some sort of philanthropic effort i.e. all proceeds benefit something or somebody. That gets around the annoying issue of profit and work for hire, etc.

Overall, I'm not sure if you're going to get much validation from wine blog readers. I think more than anything this is one of those shots in the dark you have to take based on instinct.

I like it. Good, progressive thinking!

Jeff

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

Jeff — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 07:27:55 -0000

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

ryanopaz — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 05:40:06 -0000

Becky - I think that your points are good, but the idea I'm thinking of is to take on topics that are more timeless, and to allow our writing to shine. A chance to do something a bit different.

1Winedude - I agree with the eliteism issue, but I would look to make this a situation where we have a magazine/book/review that is the best of the best. Kinda like the Wine Blog Awards. As to your third point if wine books are in Demand, and not wine mags are not, maybe we should publish a book or two.

Justin - Your right and the amount of work to do a full scale publication would be daunting, but what I would like to see is people building an idea with web 2.0 ideas like LULU.com first and then if the demand is there, looking to different ideas/ methods.

Jill - I thnk we can find a way to get retailers and industry types into this, just a matter of disclosure and discussion as to how we do it.

Lot's to think about. One thing though I would love to hear comments from possible readers of a such a book, not just people who want to be published in it! Any non-bloggers have an opinion about what they would like to buy?

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

Ryan — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 03:40:06 -0000

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

Justin — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:22:52 -0000

It is an interesting idea, Ryan, and certainly one with some genuine merit. My first thought beyond the difficulties in deciding what the content would be (and what general theme it would follow...reviews...education...commentary...who is the intended audience?) is how would it be distributed? I see the JPG offers paid subscriptions through the website but does it get any bricks & mortar distribution? Even if limited only to online paid subscriptions, managing that alone would be a substantial undertaking.

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

Justin — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:22:52 -0000

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

1WineDude — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:16:47 -0000

I think that RichardA makes several good points.

I also think that the idea, in general, is an intriguing one. It needs some work.

Some thoughts / words of caution - I don't mean any of these negatively, I offer them in what I feel are the best interests of things to seriously consider for this endeavor:

1) The printed world of journalism is very different from that of on-line blogging. Printed media from disparate sources requires a) a common voice/tone of the publication (with just enough room for originality among the various contributors), b) a well-defined target audience, c) perceived value over-&-above what could be gathered and collected by the target audience from free sources.

2) Hence the need for some sort of editorial board. However, there could be an (undeserved) air of elitism generated by this among the wine-blogging community, depending on how the content is judged and selected.

3) I agree with RichardA's statements about printed media NOT contributing significantly to a lack of respect for wine blogging. Blogging, and wine blogging in particular, is subject to a) lack of editorial control over quality of published content, b) misconception (or total lack) of established and easily-understood credibility on the subject matter (which, for wine consumers, is even worse in the case of wine than in many other areas), and c) popularity of the subject matter. Wine books are in high demand. Wine mags are not. If we were blogging about life improvement or personal finance, we'd probably be singing a different tune altogether. I would personally proffer any of these as more significant contributors than lack of printed media.

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

Becky — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:05:54 -0000

Ryan, I think it's an interesting idea to pursue (even though I'm disqualified :)). One difference I see between JPG Mag and the usual wine blog fodder is that they are specializing in images which aren't like wine blog topics in that they don't get beaten to death within 2 weeks of first hitting the internet. They're more timeless. I'm sure your Editorial panel could find some timeless themes for this project as well--photography comes to mind, wine travel pieces, reviews, etc.
As for credentials, etc I think Richard has a point... Also, if I may play devil's advocate, another point that was made in the Winecast Unfiltered was that one of the advantages bloggers have over print media is the immediacy of the medium which you'd loose in this kind of format.

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

Andrew — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:32:33 -0000

I dont have a problem with commercial operations being involved. The punter has to know where to buy the wines recommended from and the best way to appreciate the processes involved in their making is from a producer for eg. So as long as the relationship is up front I cant see a problem.

Traditional print media interviews wine makers and producers. The blog format allows a more direct approach.

Perhaps any producer supplied content could be moderated/tempered by an independent review of the wines involved from another writer?

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

1WineDude — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:16:47 -0000

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

Becky — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:05:54 -0000

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

Jill — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:35:17 -0000

I love the idea of doing an internet-based publication (at least as a testing ground for print...though print isn't very eco-friendly, is it?).

The one thing I fear: I'm a blogger, but I'm a retailer. Would I automatically be disqualified from participation due to my commercial background? Or is there someway to integrate industry folks (retailers, wineries, etc.) without blurring the editorial/advertising lines? I would hate to have to sit on the sidelines on this one, but I could see this as a logistical necessity once standards are articulated.

Just figured I should raise this early on.

Jill

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

Jeff — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:52:17 -0000

Ryan,

I have a much more --positive--substantive thoughts on this to follow later today, but in the meantime I hope your reference to "hack" above isn't related to anything I've written as I did note in a post in the fall about the alleged hour requirements to be an expert. Let it, likewise, be known that I'm a hack, as well.

Jeff

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

Andrew — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:32:33 -0000

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

Jill — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:35:17 -0000

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

Jeff — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:52:17 -0000

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

Andrew — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:20:44 -0000

twitter is just sooo geeky! This mag idea has to appeal to the casual internet user and will take some time to take off. It's worth persuing, I think, if only as a vehicle to raise the profile of the writers blogs.

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

ryanopaz — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:26:59 -0000

We'll get to all of you questions soon...but one thing I do need to mention. I've been called a "hack" before and I'm sure I'll be called one again. I have 10yrs experience in the wine world and a small amount of training at a Sommelier school. I think these credentials are pretty good, but often the idea that I use these to blog is seen as something other than professional...Strange...Anyways back to the post:

1)Yes and no one feeds the other look at the JPG example
2)Original articles based on general themes - Some photos, maybe some reviews too, who knows
3)Good question - I'll let others decide/contribute ideas
4)Look at www.jpgmag.com see what they do, you get an idea from there. But in the end it's about collating ideas with different takes on those ideas. As to what will be acceptable, good writing, as determined by the future editorial board. Maybe it should have reviews, maybe just articles, maybe both...a Blogger Wine review journal coudl be interesting too...hmmmm...Lastly it would be different because we'd work to make it different...

Re: Hey Wine Bloggers, Wanna Publish Something in Print?

RichardA — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:16:15 -0000

I agree there are exceptions, such as Robert Parker, yet I have also seen where some bloggers have been criticized for a lack of "proper credentials."

I do agree with you that "...it might add a nice sheen to our image, and it could, help to draw in some people who are not so “web-centric.” and that "...this mag/book/journal is only some nice eye candy, and could be fun!"

It is a good idea though I just think we need to put it in persepective, which I think you certainly did in your response to me. It certainly would not hurt us and could potentially help.